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	<title>Comments on: Big Ten from Eleven to Twelve?  If There&#8217;s No Luck of the Irish, Bring in More Orange</title>
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	<link>http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/2006/03/05/big-ten-from-eleven-to-twelve/</link>
	<description>A Completely Logical Chicago and Illini Sports Blog and Random Thoughts on Politics, Pop Culture, and the World</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 05:40:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: osukn</title>
		<link>http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/2006/03/05/big-ten-from-eleven-to-twelve/#comment-52998</link>
		<dc:creator>osukn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 20:01:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/2006/03/05/big-ten-from-eleven-to-twelve-if-theres-no-luck-of-the-irish-bring-in-more-orange/#comment-52998</guid>
		<description>You hit the nail on the head in this article.  I think people who feel that Notre Dame will never join the Big Ten miss the point.  Notre Dame will never join the any conference because of the money generated by the football teams independence.  No one would argue Notre Dame makes sense to the Big Ten or to Notre Dame.  After all, it is no secret that the faculty at ND was a major push to join for academic reasons, i.e. the AAU and the academic Big Ten + U of Chicago.  

The problem? money.  However, if you create a network that provides maximum exposure nationwide and creates more revenue than what ND already gets, now your talking about a completely different animal altogether.  Why, at a BTN press conference, would Delany mention expansion?  Don't think that ND isn't nosing around about the BTN and the revenues the network will create.  Don't think there isn't discussions about the finacials at South Bend.  These are volital times in college football.  The last time ND expressed interest was at the beginning of the BCS.  They didn't want to be shut out.  Of course, they got a great deal.  But for how long?  

The BCS sytem is getting tweaked yet again.(probably)  What will happen with the next BCS or some offspring of it.  My gut tells me that ND gets nervous every time the BCS is tweaked.  They are still ND, but with ESPN, ESPN 2 and the other 25 games all playing simultaniously on a saturday, ND isn't quite what it used to be.  When I was a kid you got the Big Ten game of the week and ND.  That was it!  Times have changed.  They are one of four I-A independants.    ND, in my mind, knows that the days as an independant are numbered.  I don't care what any body says about the Big Ten being down.  It is the the most powerful atheletic and academic conference in the Country, with the most powerful man in college athletics as its commissioner, with huge institutions and encompasses one quarter of the nations population.

ND expressed some interest in the Big Ten b/f the BTN.  The only peice to the puzzle left, is can the BTN tip the revenue scale solidly in favor of joining over a path of Independence?  That's the million dollar question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You hit the nail on the head in this article.  I think people who feel that Notre Dame will never join the Big Ten miss the point.  Notre Dame will never join the any conference because of the money generated by the football teams independence.  No one would argue Notre Dame makes sense to the Big Ten or to Notre Dame.  After all, it is no secret that the faculty at ND was a major push to join for academic reasons, i.e. the AAU and the academic Big Ten + U of Chicago.  </p>
<p>The problem? money.  However, if you create a network that provides maximum exposure nationwide and creates more revenue than what ND already gets, now your talking about a completely different animal altogether.  Why, at a BTN press conference, would Delany mention expansion?  Don&#8217;t think that ND isn&#8217;t nosing around about the BTN and the revenues the network will create.  Don&#8217;t think there isn&#8217;t discussions about the finacials at South Bend.  These are volital times in college football.  The last time ND expressed interest was at the beginning of the BCS.  They didn&#8217;t want to be shut out.  Of course, they got a great deal.  But for how long?  </p>
<p>The BCS sytem is getting tweaked yet again.(probably)  What will happen with the next BCS or some offspring of it.  My gut tells me that ND gets nervous every time the BCS is tweaked.  They are still ND, but with ESPN, ESPN 2 and the other 25 games all playing simultaniously on a saturday, ND isn&#8217;t quite what it used to be.  When I was a kid you got the Big Ten game of the week and ND.  That was it!  Times have changed.  They are one of four I-A independants.    ND, in my mind, knows that the days as an independant are numbered.  I don&#8217;t care what any body says about the Big Ten being down.  It is the the most powerful atheletic and academic conference in the Country, with the most powerful man in college athletics as its commissioner, with huge institutions and encompasses one quarter of the nations population.</p>
<p>ND expressed some interest in the Big Ten b/f the BTN.  The only peice to the puzzle left, is can the BTN tip the revenue scale solidly in favor of joining over a path of Independence?  That&#8217;s the million dollar question.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/2006/03/05/big-ten-from-eleven-to-twelve/#comment-50343</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 19:22:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/2006/03/05/big-ten-from-eleven-to-twelve-if-theres-no-luck-of-the-irish-bring-in-more-orange/#comment-50343</guid>
		<description>Add the Ohio Bobcats... OU would be a great secondary rival for Ohio State as well as a regional rival to Penn State &#38; Indiana.  OU has a 13,000+ capicity Convocation Center for Basketball, Volleyball, Wrestling, etc. also an up &#38; coming football team.  Academically OU would fit perfectly into the Big Ten as the universities academics/prestige is highly regarded throught the midwest &#38; the nation.  Plus I believe there enrollment is just short of 30,000.  The only thing holding them back is the fact that they have a small Football Stadium... which given the chance to join the Big Ten I'm sure OU would figure something out in regards to expanding Peden Stadium.  As an OSU alum... my vote is for OU!!  Other then the NYC Market, Syracuse does nothing for the Big Ten.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Add the Ohio Bobcats&#8230; OU would be a great secondary rival for Ohio State as well as a regional rival to Penn State &amp; Indiana.  OU has a 13,000+ capicity Convocation Center for Basketball, Volleyball, Wrestling, etc. also an up &amp; coming football team.  Academically OU would fit perfectly into the Big Ten as the universities academics/prestige is highly regarded throught the midwest &amp; the nation.  Plus I believe there enrollment is just short of 30,000.  The only thing holding them back is the fact that they have a small Football Stadium&#8230; which given the chance to join the Big Ten I&#8217;m sure OU would figure something out in regards to expanding Peden Stadium.  As an OSU alum&#8230; my vote is for OU!!  Other then the NYC Market, Syracuse does nothing for the Big Ten.</p>
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		<title>By: aaron</title>
		<link>http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/2006/03/05/big-ten-from-eleven-to-twelve/#comment-46215</link>
		<dc:creator>aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 06:08:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/2006/03/05/big-ten-from-eleven-to-twelve-if-theres-no-luck-of-the-irish-bring-in-more-orange/#comment-46215</guid>
		<description>They would have to come up with a new name because it wouldn't make sense to call the big ten with 12 schools?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They would have to come up with a new name because it wouldn&#8217;t make sense to call the big ten with 12 schools?</p>
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		<title>By: I would take Rutgers over Syracuse</title>
		<link>http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/2006/03/05/big-ten-from-eleven-to-twelve/#comment-40934</link>
		<dc:creator>I would take Rutgers over Syracuse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2007 19:39:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/2006/03/05/big-ten-from-eleven-to-twelve-if-theres-no-luck-of-the-irish-bring-in-more-orange/#comment-40934</guid>
		<description>one more thing to add.
Rutgers game NYC ppl might make the trip to the game, Syracuse game? I doubt people will fly there just to see a college football, at least at this era no.
If Syracuse want to make decent money off NYC television market, have fun persuading time warner &#38; cablevision to adopt Big Ten network w/o having heavy penalties. They are greedy folks who still won't give us NFL network</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>one more thing to add.<br />
Rutgers game NYC ppl might make the trip to the game, Syracuse game? I doubt people will fly there just to see a college football, at least at this era no.<br />
If Syracuse want to make decent money off NYC television market, have fun persuading time warner &amp; cablevision to adopt Big Ten network w/o having heavy penalties. They are greedy folks who still won&#8217;t give us NFL network</p>
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		<title>By: I would take Rutgers over Syracuse</title>
		<link>http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/2006/03/05/big-ten-from-eleven-to-twelve/#comment-40933</link>
		<dc:creator>I would take Rutgers over Syracuse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2007 19:30:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/2006/03/05/big-ten-from-eleven-to-twelve-if-theres-no-luck-of-the-irish-bring-in-more-orange/#comment-40933</guid>
		<description>Syracuse football brings in NYC viewers?
Rutgers will be more viable choice for that reason, at least from my experience most of NY proximity people doesn't pay much attention to College football.
I believe NBC conducted some kind of street survey to see if New Yorkers knew what Rutgers Scarlet Knights were, very few knew who they were despite Rutgers having successful season.
I live in Long Island (NYC suburb), when I visit pubs on Saturdays, almost always they don't turn college football on Big TVs with the exception of High Rank vs High Rank. I work at the City(manhattan), attend few happy hours no one will chat with you regards to College football except maybe few phrases like "hey rutgers in top 10 or what?" Maybe in ESPN zone, it might be different. 
Most of my friends won't watch any college football except perhaps the BCS title game.
I have hard time finding fellow college football fan on this side of USA, if your looking.

Basketball fans? Unless they play on MSG, they won't pay much attention to them either. You need to understand NYorker's attitude before venturing out to even persuade them to a college sports fan.
Alot of NYorkers have attitude of George Steinberner, either you win the championship or you're just an another bystander. They might pay attention to you if you have chance of winning nat' championship, or nothing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Syracuse football brings in NYC viewers?<br />
Rutgers will be more viable choice for that reason, at least from my experience most of NY proximity people doesn&#8217;t pay much attention to College football.<br />
I believe NBC conducted some kind of street survey to see if New Yorkers knew what Rutgers Scarlet Knights were, very few knew who they were despite Rutgers having successful season.<br />
I live in Long Island (NYC suburb), when I visit pubs on Saturdays, almost always they don&#8217;t turn college football on Big TVs with the exception of High Rank vs High Rank. I work at the City(manhattan), attend few happy hours no one will chat with you regards to College football except maybe few phrases like &#8220;hey rutgers in top 10 or what?&#8221; Maybe in ESPN zone, it might be different.<br />
Most of my friends won&#8217;t watch any college football except perhaps the BCS title game.<br />
I have hard time finding fellow college football fan on this side of USA, if your looking.</p>
<p>Basketball fans? Unless they play on MSG, they won&#8217;t pay much attention to them either. You need to understand NYorker&#8217;s attitude before venturing out to even persuade them to a college sports fan.<br />
Alot of NYorkers have attitude of George Steinberner, either you win the championship or you&#8217;re just an another bystander. They might pay attention to you if you have chance of winning nat&#8217; championship, or nothing.</p>
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		<title>By: Big Ten Expansion Talk and Land-o-Links for 7/31/2007 &#171; FRANK THE TANK&#8217;S SLANT</title>
		<link>http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/2006/03/05/big-ten-from-eleven-to-twelve/#comment-30685</link>
		<dc:creator>Big Ten Expansion Talk and Land-o-Links for 7/31/2007 &#171; FRANK THE TANK&#8217;S SLANT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2007 03:24:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/2006/03/05/big-ten-from-eleven-to-twelve-if-theres-no-luck-of-the-irish-bring-in-more-orange/#comment-30685</guid>
		<description>[...] be on the table for a school other than the usual suspect of Notre Dame. Last year, I argued for Syracuse as being the best choice other than the Fighting Irish for a 12th team and I still stand by that. Rutgers has a great location near New York City, but it&#8217;s going to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] be on the table for a school other than the usual suspect of Notre Dame. Last year, I argued for Syracuse as being the best choice other than the Fighting Irish for a 12th team and I still stand by that. Rutgers has a great location near New York City, but it&#8217;s going to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Frank the Tank</title>
		<link>http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/2006/03/05/big-ten-from-eleven-to-twelve/#comment-7123</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank the Tank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jan 2007 22:24:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/2006/03/05/big-ten-from-eleven-to-twelve-if-theres-no-luck-of-the-irish-bring-in-more-orange/#comment-7123</guid>
		<description>Quinn,

I believe that Rutgers has potential, but it's literally going to take at least a decade of success on the gridiron before they become a true candidate for Big Ten membership.  There are a ton of factors that favor Rutgers, such as its location close to New York City and strong academic reputation as a state flagship university.  However, the Big Ten is only going to take an additional member that's guaranteed to pay overwhelming dividends over the long-term (mere potential is not going to cut it with this group).  Perhaps Rutgers could become the preeminent alternative to Notre Dame to be the 12th Big Ten member, but I believe that Syracuse has the upper hand at this point in time (there's a reason why the ACC originally wanted the Orange over Virginia Tech).  Regardless, the Big Ten will only make a move when there's such an obvious choice available that the general public wouldn't even bother debating its merits (right now, Notre Dame would be the only one to fit that criteria).  It took quite awhile to get Penn State accepted into the conference and they had an impeccable resume of success along with the ability to sell 100,000 tickets every week, so the standards are set incredibly high.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quinn,</p>
<p>I believe that Rutgers has potential, but it&#8217;s literally going to take at least a decade of success on the gridiron before they become a true candidate for Big Ten membership.  There are a ton of factors that favor Rutgers, such as its location close to New York City and strong academic reputation as a state flagship university.  However, the Big Ten is only going to take an additional member that&#8217;s guaranteed to pay overwhelming dividends over the long-term (mere potential is not going to cut it with this group).  Perhaps Rutgers could become the preeminent alternative to Notre Dame to be the 12th Big Ten member, but I believe that Syracuse has the upper hand at this point in time (there&#8217;s a reason why the ACC originally wanted the Orange over Virginia Tech).  Regardless, the Big Ten will only make a move when there&#8217;s such an obvious choice available that the general public wouldn&#8217;t even bother debating its merits (right now, Notre Dame would be the only one to fit that criteria).  It took quite awhile to get Penn State accepted into the conference and they had an impeccable resume of success along with the ability to sell 100,000 tickets every week, so the standards are set incredibly high.</p>
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		<title>By: Quinn</title>
		<link>http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/2006/03/05/big-ten-from-eleven-to-twelve/#comment-7061</link>
		<dc:creator>Quinn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jan 2007 00:29:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/2006/03/05/big-ten-from-eleven-to-twelve-if-theres-no-luck-of-the-irish-bring-in-more-orange/#comment-7061</guid>
		<description>Good idea, but the timing is all off. After Notre Dame, the Big Ten has not been thrilled with the candidates. so timing will play everything. Syracuse is going through a down period in football and while basketball is solid, there will be a coaching change around the corner so anything can happen. The name that Big Ten officials continue to bring up is Rutgers. Even during the down years of Rutgers, they were still a name that came up. If they make a full upgrade for basketball and football in the coming years, they will be worthy of consideration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good idea, but the timing is all off. After Notre Dame, the Big Ten has not been thrilled with the candidates. so timing will play everything. Syracuse is going through a down period in football and while basketball is solid, there will be a coaching change around the corner so anything can happen. The name that Big Ten officials continue to bring up is Rutgers. Even during the down years of Rutgers, they were still a name that came up. If they make a full upgrade for basketball and football in the coming years, they will be worthy of consideration.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank the Tank</title>
		<link>http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/2006/03/05/big-ten-from-eleven-to-twelve/#comment-1523</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank the Tank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Oct 2006 19:17:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/2006/03/05/big-ten-from-eleven-to-twelve-if-theres-no-luck-of-the-irish-bring-in-more-orange/#comment-1523</guid>
		<description>SE,

Thanks for the great comment.  I understand your line of thinking, but I believe that the future of the BCS conferences is to get away from the history of regionalism that you've indicated here and instead look to more national audiences.  Certainly, with the advent of the Big Ten Channel on the horizon along with top shelf television deals with ABC, ESPN, and CBS, I believe that the Big Ten ought to look outside of its current footprint as opposed to within.   National exposure is why the ACC added Boston College and attempted to add Syracuse a couple of years ago.  While Notre Dame is physically located in Indiana, I see it as the one school out there where its location is irrelevant - it's such a nationally recongized program that people don't see it as just an Indiana college.  I still think the Irish are a perfect match for the Big Ten, but if they continue to insist on being independent, I'm a strong advocate of the conference breaking out of the Midwestern regional mold, especially when it has a prime opportunity to become the dominant force in East with a Penn State - Syracuse combo in addition to its established stronghold in the Midwest.  Think of it as a game of Risk as it applies to college sports - the conference that has the strongest footprint is the one that's going to dominate on and off the field in the long-term.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SE,</p>
<p>Thanks for the great comment.  I understand your line of thinking, but I believe that the future of the BCS conferences is to get away from the history of regionalism that you&#8217;ve indicated here and instead look to more national audiences.  Certainly, with the advent of the Big Ten Channel on the horizon along with top shelf television deals with ABC, ESPN, and CBS, I believe that the Big Ten ought to look outside of its current footprint as opposed to within.   National exposure is why the ACC added Boston College and attempted to add Syracuse a couple of years ago.  While Notre Dame is physically located in Indiana, I see it as the one school out there where its location is irrelevant - it&#8217;s such a nationally recongized program that people don&#8217;t see it as just an Indiana college.  I still think the Irish are a perfect match for the Big Ten, but if they continue to insist on being independent, I&#8217;m a strong advocate of the conference breaking out of the Midwestern regional mold, especially when it has a prime opportunity to become the dominant force in East with a Penn State - Syracuse combo in addition to its established stronghold in the Midwest.  Think of it as a game of Risk as it applies to college sports - the conference that has the strongest footprint is the one that&#8217;s going to dominate on and off the field in the long-term.</p>
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		<title>By: S. Eric Long</title>
		<link>http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/2006/03/05/big-ten-from-eleven-to-twelve/#comment-1448</link>
		<dc:creator>S. Eric Long</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Oct 2006 08:35:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/2006/03/05/big-ten-from-eleven-to-twelve-if-theres-no-luck-of-the-irish-bring-in-more-orange/#comment-1448</guid>
		<description>Yo Frank the Tank,
  It may help to look back at the history of the Big 10 to understand why Syracuse may not be the best choice for a 12th member. Formerly known as the Western Conference, four of the eight teams at the Big 10's founding in 1896 were Illinois colleges, with the remaining four from Minnesota, Indiana, Wisconsin and Michigan.
  During this era, transportation of the visiting team was mostly by train unless it was a crosstown rival (as with the three Chicago area teams). Thus, regionalism for Collegiate Athletics made a lot of sense. Fast forward to the 1950s when air travel became the major mode of transportation. Conferences grew and spread out geographically. The Conference USA covers the eastern half of the states, but they are an exception to the regionalism concept in college sports. 
  Because college football is heavily steeped in tradition, regionalism remains a major component of the game. Many rivalries exist within each conference, and these bring a lot of fan interest to the game.
  Major League Baseball recently bought into regionalism, by having division teams play mostly other teams within the same division. It was likely due more to economics, especially with the lost revenue of live games being three hours past local Eastern Time Zone when emanating from the West Coast. Most college football conferences are based in a half-dozen states.
  While Syracuse is not that much further east than Penn State, its addition would bring in the state of New York, which is more closely associated with the Eest Coast geographically.
  Since Illinois, Indiana and Michigan each have two teams, it makes sense for one of the other Big 10 football states to get a second team in the Conference. I'd like to see Ohio get a second team or perhaps Wisconsin or Iowa. Ohio has Cincinnati and any of several MAC teams, especially Toledo, Akron or Ohio. Okay, so Ohio University is a bit of a stretch, but they do have the former Nebraska coach.  Notre Dame adds a third Indiana team to the Big 10, and that would result in an imbalance the one or two colleges per state in the conference.
   Anyway,
Something to think about--          
SE Long</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yo Frank the Tank,<br />
  It may help to look back at the history of the Big 10 to understand why Syracuse may not be the best choice for a 12th member. Formerly known as the Western Conference, four of the eight teams at the Big 10&#8217;s founding in 1896 were Illinois colleges, with the remaining four from Minnesota, Indiana, Wisconsin and Michigan.<br />
  During this era, transportation of the visiting team was mostly by train unless it was a crosstown rival (as with the three Chicago area teams). Thus, regionalism for Collegiate Athletics made a lot of sense. Fast forward to the 1950s when air travel became the major mode of transportation. Conferences grew and spread out geographically. The Conference USA covers the eastern half of the states, but they are an exception to the regionalism concept in college sports.<br />
  Because college football is heavily steeped in tradition, regionalism remains a major component of the game. Many rivalries exist within each conference, and these bring a lot of fan interest to the game.<br />
  Major League Baseball recently bought into regionalism, by having division teams play mostly other teams within the same division. It was likely due more to economics, especially with the lost revenue of live games being three hours past local Eastern Time Zone when emanating from the West Coast. Most college football conferences are based in a half-dozen states.<br />
  While Syracuse is not that much further east than Penn State, its addition would bring in the state of New York, which is more closely associated with the Eest Coast geographically.<br />
  Since Illinois, Indiana and Michigan each have two teams, it makes sense for one of the other Big 10 football states to get a second team in the Conference. I&#8217;d like to see Ohio get a second team or perhaps Wisconsin or Iowa. Ohio has Cincinnati and any of several MAC teams, especially Toledo, Akron or Ohio. Okay, so Ohio University is a bit of a stretch, but they do have the former Nebraska coach.  Notre Dame adds a third Indiana team to the Big 10, and that would result in an imbalance the one or two colleges per state in the conference.<br />
   Anyway,<br />
Something to think about&#8211;<br />
SE Long</p>
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